Comments on: Are You Experienced?

By: stewart townsend

stewart townsend — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:34:24 +0000

Oli good piece, as usual interesting and thought provoking, as my better half runs a school for excluded children, I see the harsh side of life and exposed to some of these issues, mainly school doesnt prepare our children for life, it prepares them for tests, and if they are not as good at the test mentallity but more creative, it fails them. I meet children who come from backgrounds you can;t imagine, who wan’t to be something but unless they pass a test that allows them, they can’t, just sheer madness. What we do is teach them life, budgets, outdoor aspects (some of these children have never been on a train never mind a plane, to visit another city) how to present themselves and convey what they wish without anger.
Its a tough world out in the harsher side of life, and what some of these children battle through, and I help with, is to stop them from just accepting the job placement at the biscuit factory and thus make them think what would they like to do.

And yes basic things like answering the phone, taking a message and not answering with innit, takes time, but they need help and support around all of this….

By: Daniel Snell

Daniel Snell — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:52:59 +0000

O. (Hi P.)

This is a fascinating debate. The reason why we use work placements as part of our social engagement and community change strategy is because it sits within a pathway. I believe work placements in their own right very hit and miss. Those that could normally grab the opportunity of a work placement would probably do well anyway. However, if the experience is in isolation, then it is far more patchy.

The scalable component is critical; in most difficult communities the work placement opportunities they have access to are really poor, and in a sense it could be perceived as it’s a judgment or insight on what may lie ahead. How to make the experience valuable is essential, both for the businesses and individuals.

I think you come with a middle class perspective here O. Of course what you say is true, however, saying something and have someone act on it are two different things. Change within a work placement setting, i believe you need to address certain points.

You have to have a pre-programme (for most) that prepares the young people for the experience, and it has to be within context of their aspirations, wants and desires. On that programme you need to have:

1. There has to be a level of security, respect, credibility and safety before you can do anything meaningful
3. Find their ‘inspiration’ or want and build the programme around that
4. It has to be aspirational as well as inspirational – the standards need to be high! As well as consistency.
5. It has to change the way they think and act – this is best done in a structured frame work
6. It has to be practical – with a well reasoned, logical pathway to what it is they want
7. The pathway needs to have a experiential component to it
8. You must take participants outside their comfort zone and all their actions must lead toward a desired goal
9. There needs to be consistency and reliability in their experience

I do believe work placements could be used within the learning framework of school, however, not without some radical change in the process. Back to the nagging question O - ‘what’s the purpose of school’

There just isn’t enough joined-up-thinking in my mind.

By: peter

peter — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:14:29 +0000

Excellent repost, Oli! Thanks.

You’re right to recognise that we have a massive problem with literacy and numeracy in this country that is not to be under-estimated. And there are ways that work-related learning can help highlight and bring home the importance of some of these issues. (e.g. the example of the football agent to demonstrate why maths is important).

The things I would like to challenge though is 1) the presumption that work experience needs to be two-weeks sitting in one place and 2) the notion that young people should be seen and not heard.

As your meetings with young people shows, you’d get more of conversations with mentors, and with networking meetings than you’d ever get two weeks stapling. so why don’t we encourage more of this as a way to expand careers advice? Ten minutes with someone like you will be worth so much more than a standard hour-long presentation from a tired-careers adviser.

And having started my professional life as an intern I agree there is a lot to be learnt from photocopying, stapling and observing - but I also appreciated the fact that somebody (sometimes…) listened to what I had to say and asked my opinion.

I couldnt think of anything worse than creative-directors on day one - but I’m suggesting that if, for instance, a company wanted to launch a new product with the youth market - couldn’t one route be to engage young people on this journey through work-related learning (even if they cant write very well)? See http://www.theyouthconspiracy.com/ for example

your idea of building trust and respect over a series of tasks is absolutely spot on - in an ideal world “the 2-week experience” would be part of a longer term involvement and relationship with a school or college. A lot of good work experience palcements out there already do some of this. I’m just interested in a bit more…

Speak soon,